Tape 136  Mikeen McCarthy  4.2.79

Contents

Leaving signs for other Travellers, heaps of stones or turf.  

Signs left would tell what farm was good for.

Bad farms would be given names in Gammon, i.e. House of The Bad Woman.

Travellers have names for stopping places.  How these got their names.

Motor cars were the end of Travellers leaving signs.

Travellers geographical nicknames, not necessarily where the Traveller comes from.  i.e.

Tipperary Ward not from Tipperary.

Areas good for specific trades, feathers, donkeys etc.

Travellers always had a main trade though he would also do other work.

No dispute over Travellers routs, but jealousy between families from different counties.

Traveller strongman, Paddy McCarthy.

Traveller carried dead pony across his shoulders to bury it.

Carried telegraph poles when he worked for E.S.B.

Fight between Paddy McCarthy and Paddy O'Brien (another strongman).

Ate a full pigs head and 2 stone potatoes.

Smashed up pub in Edgware Road and threw juke box out of window.

Paddy McCarthy fights bad policeman.

Buried at The Tap Grave Yard (Travellers nickname).

Paddy O'Brien's tug-o-war with horse.

Strong woman "Nonie The Wolf", used to beat her husband who was 6ft2".   Beat up policemen.

Competition between strongmen.

Competition between "Big John" and steam crusher. Farmer wouldn't lend him roller so he lifted it over the fence.

Street strongmen tearing telephone directories, escape artists.

Whip artists, balancing artists

J C       The Scots Travellers have said that when they were travelling through the countryside and they call in at a farm, if it was a good farm they’d leave a sign somewhere or other so that the next Travellers that came along knew what kind of a farm it was, whether it was good or bad; did you ever hear this, about leaving signs along the road for other….. can you tell us about it Mikey?

M Mc  Yeah.  But that’s long ago like, you know, but it’s changed now.  But they’d be always with, say, two horses and cars, one after the other like, you know, but they’d be probably the one family.  So if one of them done good in a farmhouse like, they’d either leave a sod of turf or a stone or something at the gate, you know; ‘twas a good farmhouse.  Or if they got, we’ll say, bacon, we’ll say, potatoes or something like that, they’d drop a couple of the potatoes at the gate, thing like that.  If they sold something, it’d be the same way.  Well they’d go down to it anyway where there was signs left, and the next one ‘d go down there then again, d’you see, it went on.  Well they’d be selling different things like, and they’d be looking for different alms anyway, whatever then. 

D’you know, one ‘d say, “’tis a good house for potatoes”; well, you’d probably get a bag of potatoes there, maybe a good few pound of bacon, a thing like that, you know, a few heads of cabbage, all that thing.  The other one then ‘d ask something else, you know.

J C       But the sign that they left would tell what it was good for?

M Mc  Yeah, yeah.    

J C       Can you think of any of them?

M Mc  They’d pull grass off of a ditch, you know, and they’d drop it at the gate, they’d pull a sraith, we’ll say, a thing like that, anything ‘d be available.  That was the old signs.  I remember them well and I a young lad.

P Mc   If it was a bad place, you know, if they had got no welcome, really bad, did they leave any sort of mark then?

M Mc  Well, they’d nearly know their houses, d’you know, the houses where they weren’t acceptable there like.  Well you’d hardly ever see Travellers going there.  And eventually it would wind up that that would be the decentest house in the end because they’d be kind of liked if they dropped around, you know. 

Say there was a bad man in the house now, and one woman ‘d say, “Gammy sham anorsha”, you see.

J C       What would they say?

M Mc  One woman would say to the other; that’s in Gammon like, “Gammy sham anorsha”, and then they’d be describing the country that they were in, we’ll say; this is their old saying, “Do you know the house with the bad dog; do you know the house with the bad man; do you know the house with the cranky woman; they’d names on them all, you know, they nearly know it, we’d our names of our own camping grounds, mollys, some people call them.  The Watery Man’s Cross; Spring Water Cross; ah, there’s hundreds of names like that.

J C       Can you think of some more Mikey?

M Mc  The Briary Camp, all that; The Haunted Cross; The Pump Cross there was no such thing, ‘tis our own names we had for them; and that’s gone down for a hundreds of years.  I could mention now, to any old Traveller that was, we’ll say, they wasn’t back with twenty years, suppose I speak about any part of Ireland, The Pump Cross, or The Spring Water Cross, they’d know the camp straight away, it went down.  We christened all those camps ourself and the houses and all that, you know.  And it went from one to the other.  Rocks Cross; a cross where there was a load of rocks inside in a field, and I never see, the rocks is gone out with years now, maybe fifty years, but still ‘tis down to us again, The Rocks Cross, all that, you know.  If you ask anybody back there, postman or something, ah, he wouldn’t know what you are talking about.  (Laughter)  We’ve names here in this country sure, Dan’s Roundabout, that’s where Dan Doran had an accident, and several places like that now, I forget.  Well back round Birmingham we’d Briarly Camp, no such thing at all.  We knew all our own names like that like. 

J C       How did it get its name Mikey, how did the….. can you think of say, how Briarly Camp got its name? 

M Mc  Well, that’d be a camp where there’d be a lot of briars one time, and they’d be breaking away the briars we’ll say. 

And see, one old feller ‘d say to us, “You know the camp where we broke in all the briars?, ‘cause they couldn’t think of the names, you see.  And that’s how it went on.  And then perhaps we’d pull on to the spring water, where the spring water was.  So they’d cut it short then, Spring water Cross, d’you know, thing like that.  And The Haunted Road, we’ll say, well that was some old Travellers got a fright there one time with ghosts or something; it still stuck to it.  The Bad Man’s Cross, there was a bad farmer there one time.  (Laughter)  But the Gorgies around there, they’d often call them names because they’d hear the Travellers going on about it like. 

If they were now they’d say, “Where are you stopped?”

So the Traveller ‘d forget, “Oh I’m out at The Watery Camp”.

“Where’s that”.

So he’d explain to him like.

“Oh, is that what you call it, The Watery Camp, or The Spring Water Cross, d’you know.

J C       How did The Water Splash get its name, d’you know?

M Mc  Must be some of the Travellers again, must be like.  If you ask anybody round there where the Water Splash was, there’s no such place.  And there’s another place, I pass it there, out in Watford Bye-pass, The Sandy Lane; sure, the Travellers christened it The Sandy Lane because ‘twas all sand, you know, old Sandy Lane.

J C       Lovely; I never thought of that.  But back to the other thing Mikey, you know, leaving the signs; how long is it since you’ve seen it done?

M Mc  Oh jay, ‘twould be thirty five years ago, because ‘tis thirty, thirty five years since the motor cars came in to the Travellers.  I suppose ‘tis done since that like, but not to my knowledge, you know.

J C       How would the other Travellers know what you meant or what to look for?

M Mc  Ah well, you’d know like, they’d maybe….. you know a stick they’d have in their hand now, they’d scatter the sand, something like that.  Well, they’d be looking like.  Or waste papers or something like that, they’d know it that way like, d’you know.  You’d be surprised at the way they knew it, you know.  But there was Travellers then….. we’d the names of Travellers then like; if you explain about….. there was so many Paddy McCarthys now, we’ll say, Paddy O’Brien and all that; Paddy McCarthy from Liscarroll, Paddy O’Brien from Listowel, d’you know, they weren’t from them places at all, d’you know.  Then you’d Killarney Jim, sure, he wasn’t from Killarney at all, but he’d a fight one time in Killarney, and he said, “I was the best man….. he’d tell you, “the best man in Killarney”, so that’s how they christened him Killarney Jim, sue, he was only in Killarney one altogether.  (Laughter)  We’ve the same over here now, Paddy Ward from Galway, we calls him.  Ah, you’d be surprised they names we’ve for one another.

J C       I’d like to talk to you about that one night, just about all the….. if you can think of all the nicknames you can think of, you know.  So just to clear up, you’d decide beforehand, say if you called into a farm, if somebody called into a farm, the next family would know because the signs were always the same ones that were used?

M Mc  Yeah; and we’ll say the men ‘d be working that time like, making tinware like, and tables and chairs and all that, you know, maybe dealing in horses, and the women ‘d be doing what they call a course of houses there; a course of houses, that’s what they used to say like, you know, “Which course are you taking today?”

Well, they’d explain then, “We’ll go on by the such-and-such a cross now”, whatever the name of it ‘d be, we’ll say, “Well I’ll go up by Spring Water Cross and on by Farmer’s Bridge”, that was more names they got; and, “I’ll go out by where the bad dog was one time, and on by The Deaf and Dumb Boy”.  (Laughter)

“On by – do you remember where the bad farmer was long ago, and the decent woman was”, and all that.  Well they’d know where to follow then; they could pick one another off then.  Maybe one ‘d be going that way now, d’you see, and the other come around this way; so they’d meet one another then like that like, and they’d carry on around and they’d meet back at the camp again.

J C       Was there a territory for Travellers, you know; say you were hawking, you’d always do it in the same area?

M Mc  You’d stop in the one area until you’ve it all done; you see; it might take a month, might take two weeks.  If feathers started to rise up now, we’ll say, in price, well you’d generally hit for Clare because ‘tis there you’d get the best feathers; or else for Kerry or the County Limerick.  You’d see an awful lot of feather men; feather collectors like, you’d see them all in them counties then if feathers were dear.  Coming on the Christmas then, they’d shove off selling tarpaulin and that swag and Christmas swag and all that; well they all had their own counties for that then like.  And then you’ve the chimney sweeps, and that was coming on at Christmas.  Well they’d hit for the remotest parts of Kerry or wherever it’d be, because there’d be no chimney sweeps there, you see.  And then you’d have them coming on….. they timed everything, every way of looking for their living.  The time of the bogs then ‘d start; that was the donkey men, then, they’d make off for all the bogs ‘cause bogs was….. donkeys was the greatest animal of all for the bogs, d’you see, and that was the place to send their tinware then for the men that’s working in the bogs.  So they had all their time cut out, you know, like a man working in a factory.  They timed the time of the year well, after Christmas now we had to start on something else.  They packed whatever they’d be doing before Christmas then and they started something else after Christmas. So each man had about ten or fifteen different trades, and his wife might have another ten.

J C       Did you always have a main trade Mikey; was there always one trade that you would identify.

M Mc  There was.  Tinsmith my father was, he was a professional tinsmith.  Well, that was never out of it like, he’d always do that, and he’d be doing other trades besides then.  He was a wire worker, making calf-muzzles out of wire like, baskets, all that, you know.  And he’d be down to the table making, chair making, all that.  But he’d get fed up of the tinware, we’ll say for a month, or a couple of months and go on something else, maybe selling tarpaulin, gathering feathers; if feathers was dear he’d pack up the tin trade, go on the feathers.  If donkeys was buying he’d pack up the tin trade and on the donkeys, and when the donkeys was packed he’s back to the tinware again.  That was his main trade; a tinsmith.

J C       You were talking before about routes, you know; about the routes the women ‘d take; how would it be if two Travellers from different families got on the same route, would that ever happen.

M Mc  Ah, it would; you’d see two women now, we’ll say, from the Travellers and they’d go out together on the one horse and cart.  And they were very agreeable like. But maybe there might tinsmith’s wives now; well, they’d have their two loads of tinware like, you know, tied in a rope. Well they… selling this; well, they’d go on with the tinware, one woman, and she’d sell two or three items, and she’d keep going on and she’d sell two or three, and then she’d leave her on the cart, and the other woman ‘d sell two or three; and that’s the way they’d be until evening.   And whatever they’d get then they’d divide they’d divide it straight between the two of them.  And the men ‘d be the same.  You’d see the two tinsmiths there, they’d buy two boxes of tin between two of them and they’d work on till they finished the two boxes of tin between them; split it straight up the middle.

J C       There’d never be the case of somebody being accused of trespassing on another man’s……?

M Mc  No, no.  Well every county like, ‘d be jealous of another county man coming in, you know.   (Laughter)  Because they’d have contracts like, we’ll say, from shops and towns and farmers that they knew down through the years.  Well they wouldn’t like that if they were contractors, anybody slipped in, you know.  But ‘twould be the same way if we went to some other county, you know.  But people are kind of clever for that, so they knew that.  Those tinsmiths now, when they’d come up to where our men was tinsmiths one time, they’d pack their tools, they wouldn’t work there and they’d go on something else, d’you see.  Opposition (Laughter)

J C       That was just an understanding?  What would happen if somebody got a bit awkward and said, “Well, I’m going to do it anyway”; would there be trouble?

M Mc  Oh, there would, yeah.  It could happen alright that way, yeah. 

And they’d say, “We’re no opposition to you, we’re on feathers”, a thing like that, you know.  Well that was quite agreeable then, so they’d always come to a decision.  But they’d never mention about it like, ‘tis the strange Travellers theirself; what I call strange Travellers now, next county Travellers; there wouldn’t be twenty mile of difference.  But ‘twas an understandable thing between them.

J C       You said something before Mikey, in Gammon; what was it, do you remember?

M Mc  If there was a bad man in the house?  Well that’s what one woman say to the other, “Gammy sham anorsha; bad man in here”.

J C       That’s exactly what it means; “Bad man in here”?

M Mc  Yeah, or “Gammy common anorsha”, that’s “A bad dog in here”, you see.

“Gammy old beo”, d’you know, that means “acole esco beo”, that means “a hungry woman”.

J C       What’s beos?

M Mc  That’s a woman.

J C       Woman?

M Mc  Yeah.  A lackeen is a girl, in English they call her rattly, calls a girl a rattly in English Gammon like, you know.  And if he was a decent man now like, say “Custy sham anorsha; decent man” you know.  And a tomo sham, that’d be all….. twenty different names for it.

J C       Don’t get too deep into this; I want to spend a night talking to you.  Can you tell us….. you were talking last week Mikey, about strong men; what was it you were…..?

M Mc  There was various strong men, jay, there was an awful lot of them.  There was a strong man one time, Paddy McCarthy from Liscarroll, he was six foot eight; and a pony died belonging to him; I wouldn’t say he was a big horse, he was a pony.  And he’d no way of shifting him off the road, and the rules was that time that a man ‘d have to get the pony off of the road himself and bury him himself, ‘twas the law.  So he lift up the pony across his shoulders and he caught the child by the hand and he walked on down by the bog and he thrown this pony into the bog hole (laughter)

But the time of the Danes, where he lived like, in Liscarroll, there’s an old castle there, and the time of the Danes, one of the Danes thrown a sledgehammer over it, a seven pound sledgehammer, and ‘tis only back there about ten years ago, twelve years ago, the whole town got together on Paddy McCarthy’s site, and bejay, he hit the top of it with the sledge, hit the bare top of the castle.  The English army and all were stationed there and they tried it during the war and everything.  Oh, he was a powerful man.

J C       Did you know him yourself?

M Mc  Yeah, he was a cousin of mine in fact.  Well, he was a big cousin (Laughter).  But himself and his son, they were employed with the E.S.B. like, putting down telegraph poles; so you know the weight of a telegraph pole, the big ones.  And they used get six shillings each like, for pulling the poles along like, with a horse.  Well the first and second one was easy, but ‘twas in the end of the evening like, you might have to go a mile, maybe more, because I think them poles is a hundred yards apart.  And bejay, he used to tie one on to the horse anyway and his son would get at one end of the pole and he’d get at the other, and up on their shoulder, and he’d bring on the horse by the head and the horse would be pulling another one.  All the people around there ‘d be telling you about him.

But he was fighting a terrible big, strong man, Paddy O’Brien, Paddy O’Brien was twenty-two stone and he was six-foot-four, a professional fighting man like; not a trained boxer, but he was the best man, I’d say, in Ireland, Paddy O’Brien was.  And I never heard tell of nobody beating him.  And bejay, Paddy McCarthy was fighting him.  And there was a weighbridge in Castleisland, and Paddy McCarthy hit him, and with the force of the punch; he’d a big leather belt on him; and the leather belt busted on his waist, and he drove Paddy O’Brien through a window across the street.  (Laughter)  There was many yarns about him like; and Paddy O’Brien was no baby.

J C       There are a lot of stories about him were there.

M Mc  Oh yeah, yeah; of jay, the world of stories; everybody ‘d be telling a story about Paddy McCarthy, and Paddy O’Brien. But he use keep donkeys like, and if he couldn’t get the donkeys into the field, d’you know, if the gate was locked, he’d lift them in o’er the ditch himself; one after the other.  (Laughter)  Oh Yeah.  I believe that he ate a full pig’s head, as far as I hear, and two stone of potatoes, and a half a cake of bread and six pints of buttermilk in the one feed. 

J C       Was he a big man; I know he was tall, but was he big?

M Mc  Oh jay, he was, I suppose about twenty-vive stone like, maybe more.  He was a natural giant sure.  He came her to Edgeware Road.  He was a quiet man; he was a chucker-out in al the pubs in Cahermee, and over the dance-halls.  He was a Gorgie man like….. a Gorgie’s friend, d’you know, because everybody knew him.  But that’s where he worked like, d’you know, in pubs.  But he came over; his son was in a bit of trouble, his son got killed here in England, the big feller, you know, used bring the telegraph poles with him; so he was mad over his son, d’you see.  And he was inside in a pub in Edgeware Road and the juke box was on, and he was annoyed, he didn’t believe in music or anything like that when anybody died, you know.  And this feller put on the juke box; he told him turn it off, and the whole pub was full like; tough guys, you know.  And whatever happened anyway, they started picking on him, and he cleaned out the whole pub and he thrown the juke box through the window.  And it took fourteen police to get him into the station.  But that’s twenty-five years ago, and if you talk about Paddy Carthy in Edgeware Road it rings a bell.  (Laughter)  jay, he put the juke box out through the window.  I don’t know how he got on in Ireland, you see, the police; what they call it, his character like, and he was very good you know, behind.   But I used often see him there now in Ireland, and he was an aged man then, and he was standing at the door of dance houses and pubs. 

And I’d say, “Hello Paddy”.

“Hello”.  (Laughter)  Jakers, even if it was me, he wouldn’t let me in if I was any kind of a blaggard, into the pubs, d’you know; not into the dance halls either.  Or any of the boys.

“Go on in but you must be quiet”, he’d say; and jay, you’d better be quiet.

J C       These stories about him; do you know that they’re true, or are they…..?

M Mc  Oh, they’re true, yeah.

J C       They’re all true?

M Mc  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 

We got a lift one night off a taxi man, myself and a friend of mine; we hired a taxi like.  And he was from Liscarroll, and over our name being McCarthy, he said, “Do you know Paddy McCarthy?”

I told him we did well.

“Jay”, he said, “he was my greatest mate”, he said.  Everybody knew him like, the rich and the poor.  But he was telling us a yarn anyway, that there was guard came to town in Liscarroll and he was a right bad one.  And bejay, all the people around anyway, put Paddy on him.  Oh, he was a right blaggard of a feller, used be hitting this feller and hitting that feller, and they didn’t like that craic at all like, and he was summonsing everybody they get.  And Paddy McCarthy was inside; he wasn’t that type of man at all, one who pushes the fellers around, you know. They put him on to them, they told him he was a powerful man to fight and all this.  So they wanted to get on Paddy McCarthy to him.  So bejay, he went into the pub where he used to spy, the guard used to spy anyway.  Paddy McCarthy challenged him and they went out on the green; and one slap.  (Laughter)  He was gone the following morning out of town.  (Laughter)

J C       Is he living now or is he dead now?

M Mc  Oh, he’s dead.  He’s buried outside of Cork City, he is, in a place they call the Tap (te); the Tap Graveyard.  That’s not the name of it at all; Ovens is really the name of it; the Travellers call it The Tap.

J C       What’s the real name of it?

M Mc  Ovens.

J C       Ovens?

M Mc  Yeah.  But the Travellers, because there was a tap at the cross one time, ‘tis still there.  That’s down to a hundred years.

J C       But these names the Travellers have, go right back do they?

M Mc  Oh, they are down, and they always will be.

J C       Are there any more strong men Mikey, apart from Paddy McCarthy?

M Mc  Oh yeah, Paddy O’Brien was another strong man; gee, he was another giant of a man.  I see him with my own two eyes, like; one day there was a horse under the caravan, and he was joking, your man that had the horse and caravan.  And he caught a hold of a tree with one hand, and he caught what we call the shackles off the spring, and your man tried to…… “Go on”, he yelled to the horse, and the horse couldn’t pull him.  (Laughter)  His two arms like two junks of trees.  And he never knew your man was holding it, you know, he used come back again, “Jay, what’s wrong with them old wheels; what’s wrong with this horse, he’d pull anything; this ground must be haunted?”   Sure ‘twas Paddy O’Brien was catched the tree and catched the wagon and the horse couldn’t move him.  (Laughter)

Well, I saw five men one day and they try to pull a junk of a tree with a rope for a fire, d’you know, what they call a butt of a tree, and they couldn’t, and he came down and gave it two jerks and towed it over the ground, yeah. 

Paddy O’Brien; he’s about seventy now, he’s alive, he’s down in Swansea.  But eight punched him in a taxi one day; oh, I was looking at him, in a place called Lixnaw, and jay, he was well steamed up, and they were lepping on top of him and everything, but he put down five of them and the other three ran (Laughter).  Oh, I saw caps and coats flying that day, I’ll tell you one thing.  He was like a junk in the road and he looking for more.  (Laughter)

Oh, yes.  Oh, there’s fellers here….. we were talking about that the other night in a pub, and the other feller here, Martin McDonagh, he was thinking about it, talking about it.  Oh, you’d some fierce strong men.

J C       Did you ever hear tell at all of strong women Mikey?

M Mc  Yeah; my mother had a sister, she was my aunt in fact, and she was blind, she used wear size seven nailed boots; Nonie The Wolf they used call her.

J C       What do they call her?

M Mc  Nonie The Wolf.  But she beat her own husband, she used beat him and he was six-foot-two.   And before she got blind she was coming out of Dingle, she was fond of her pint, herself and her husband; her husband was cowardly, d’you know, afraid of her although he was a fine man.  And bejay, three Black and Tans attacked him anyway, because I think they were causing a bit of an annoyance, and she beat the three of them at the cross. (Laughter)  They never got a bigger shame; the husband ran. (Laughter)  But size seven nailed boots she used to wear.

J C       Would any of these people…… did they make a profession of being strong at all Mikey; you know, did they…..?

M Mc  No, ‘twas just pure ignorance; if they wanted to do a thing they’d do it and that was it.

J C       They’d never make money out of it?

M Mc  No, no, no, no.  Jeeze, if they were like that today they’d be picked up for wrestling or something like; powerful men, you know.  Oh, there was one of them picked up, he’s dead now; Noel O’Casey, God have mercy on him.  He fought for the heavyweight champion of Ireland, and bejay, he was going with a Travelling girl and he forgot about the whole lot and married the girl, packed it all up.  He fought Paddy O’Brien two times.  Paddy O’Brien was never trained in his life and Noel was the welterweight he was of Ireland, he fought for it (?????).  And he fought Paddy O’Brien and Paddy O’Brien beat him.  (Laughter)  Well he didn’t beat him the second and he won the second.

There was another little feller back there, Corky; old Ned ‘d be his uncle, Ned Reilly.  Corky Casey, jakers, he was on the radio and all sure, when there was no television, he’d be about my age now.  We was an all-rounder.  So he was fighting a guard from Glynn they call it, and the guard was a stone and a half heavier than him, and he was, I don’t know, six or eight inches taller than him, something like that.  And they said, “You can’t fight him Corky, he’s heavier than you”, they said, “and he’s taller”.

And he said; the way he talks, “Put on seven topcoats on me and that’ll bring up the weight”, says he, “and I’ll still beat him”.  (Laughter) 

But he was on the radio there, ah jay, he fought the likes of the champion of County Clare, County Limerick, and all that, and they asked him what was he doing for training.

And he says, “I fishes up to four o’clock in the morning and I smokes forty fags a day”.  Oh, he was marvellous, he was a great fighter.  But there was some fine heavyweights lost in some of them like ‘cause they were good men, you know.

J C       Did they do it for competition; I know they didn’t do it professionally, but did they, you know, did they do shows say, for other Travellers?

M Mc  No; there was….. you’d all those, you had big Paddy from Liscarroll, you’d Paddy O’Brien from Kerry, you’d King Ward from Galway, you’d all them famous fighting men, Paddy Casey from Clare, they all had tags on after all their names, you know.  Well if they were good enough they’d come up to Kerry, like that, you know.  Well, if they did come up the fighting man in Kerry know what he’d be coming for like, and he’d be waiting on him.  If the feller from Kerry went to Clare, the Clare man ‘d know what he’d be coming for, d’you know; he’d know ‘twouldn’t be coming for a holiday or anything; he’d be coming to fight him.  Bu ‘twas one thing you’d never see is anybody going to fight Paddy O’Brien in Kerry, they wouldn’t; they’d come so far and they’d hear about him.  It was like that giant I was telling you about.  (Laughter).  But Paddy McCarthy met him; they met in Castleisland; ‘twas a kind of accidentally, you know, maybe it wasn’t, you know; might be a set up job.  There’s a guard stationed there now, he’s an old man now, he’s retired now, but he used be telling us about it.  There was about thirty guards there and they couldn’t stop the two of them, police, couldn’t stop them, they had to leave them at it.  They couldn’t get near them, because….. I mean they were two giants like, couldn’t stop them.  It went on for two or three hours I believe, no stop.

J C       Who’s the strongest man you’ve ever heard of?

M Mc  There was a Gorgie and there was a steam crusher outside the door; Big John they used call him; he used wear size fourteen boots.  And he was inside in a pub one day; and d’you know those steam crushers; there was one of them parked out in the road.  That man didn’t know his own strength.

And the man in the pub said, “John”…… the men that was driving like, was gone to dinner.

“If you move that steam crusher”, said he, “I’ll give you six pints of Guinness”.

And he took off his coat and he moved it about half-an-inch.  And ten men now in the pub and they tried it and they couldn’t move it.  But he was unnatural strong; they talk about him all over Ireland. 

The farmer next door wouldn’t give him the loan of the rolled for rolling the garden, and he bragging about it the following night in the pub; he said, “I went in and I rolled it over the ditch, and I rolled the garden myself, and he know nothing about it and I put it back again”.  (Laughter)  Bragging he was about stealing it; he wasn’t bragging about lifting at all.  He rolled the garden himself with it in the night.  (Laughter)    “He never missed it”, he said.

J C       He was a Gorgie man was he?

M Mc  Yeah.

J C       Did you know him or did you only hear of him?

M Mc  No, I only heard about him; my father always talk about him.

J C       Your father was in the mines, wasn’t he?

M Mc  Yeah.

J C       Did you ever hear him talk about strong miners?

M Mc  No; he used be telling us about pit fights all right, outside the coal mines and all that; no he would never tell me.

J C       You never heard about a man who could hew more coal than anybody else?

M Mc  No, not that I remember Jimmy.

J C       Should we go and have a drink?

M Mc  Yeah.  I’ll tell you some other night, but fellers tearing telephone books, putting needles through them, I know all them lads.

J C       They’re the….?

M Mc  Strong men in the streets, professionals.

J C       Oh, they’re the professionals?

M Mc  Yeah.

J C       Are they still going Mikey?

M Mc  Ah, they’re all here in London now, some of them, every one of them up there in Petticoat Lane now.  John Eagle, he was very good.  A lot of them dead; Tommy Burns.

J C       Are these Travelling men now?

M Mc  Yeah.  A lot of them dead.  Joe Sheehan; there was Stonewall Jackson; jay, he used get into a straightjacket and in three minutes he’d be out of it.  There was two fellers over the asylum in Killarney and he didn’t know like.  And they knew how to tie a straightjacket like, and they tricked him; they tied it; they used try to make a laugh of him over the crowd and he was out of it in three minutes.  But he was only a little feller; he used catch telephone books and tear them in four halves like that.  There was big six-inch nails, he’d bend them; ‘twas amazing like.  You know the old pennies now?  Get them into his teeth there and bend them and flatten them in altogether with his teeth and fling them round to the crowds.  Needles; big darning needles in and out through him.  Swallowing a watch and the chain; you could hear the watch ticking inside him and back up again.  (Laughter)  They were marvellous.

J C       Was it a trick in it Mikey, or did he do it?

M Mc  No; oh, they did it, yeh.

J C       And the same with tearing books and things, they did it there wasn’t any……?

M Mc  Yeah.  And some of them had whips then, twenty one feet long.  And you’d see a feller in the crowd and he’d be relaxed then with a butt of a fag, and you’d see the butt of a fag coming out of his mouth like a shot.  (Laughter)  You wouldn’t know what had happened.

Ah they’re still around, but they don’t do it any more, you know. 

You’d Paddy McCarthy from Skibbereen then, he was another small feller; he’d have to get two men to help him to life a big horse’s wheel up on his chin, then he’d tell the two men go away then, he’d hold it there.  They were marvellous.  Such as balance like, you know; you couldn’t believe it like, a needle on top of his nose and he balancing a needle; his cap; anything.

There was another feller used to have his little girl of six years of old up on top of a ladder and he’d have that on top of his chin and his child up on top of it.  He got a month imprison because he got checked two times with the police in case she fall. 

Ah, Jo Sheehan, he used to lift his horse off of the ground up on his back and walk around the street with him.  (Laughter)  He’d the horse trained for it.

J C       He’d have to.

M Mc  The horse would stand there quite still for him, and the little girl up on her back as well, up on the horse’s back.

J C       And they used to do this for pennies?

M Mc  For a living, yeah.

J C       Well, lovely Mikey.