Tape twenty seven..

Mikeen McCarthy

Contents

Green Grows The Laurels  (Iv)

Blind Beggar   (3v)

Ballad sheets and selling his father's songs

Finding songs from other areas

Picking up airs for songs

Description of ballad sheet contents

Travelling ballad sellers

Buying ballad sheets from printing office

Singing for ballad sales and teaching airs to buyers

Singing and selling ballads in Listowel Fair

“Hit” ballads

Singing pubs

Demise of ballad selling “it was classed as a very low trade but that was the people who couldn't do it…  “‘Twas my life, and you're never ashamed of your occupation once you're able to do it.”

M Mc             

Oh then green grows the laurel and soft falls the dew,

Oh then, sad was the night love I parted with you,

Oh then, let them all keep talking, let them say what they will,

If my love is not for me, oh then, sorry am I.

JC       That's fine.

M Mc

Oh there was a blind beggar, for a long time was blind,

He had one only daughter who was handsome and kind,

He had one only daughter and a fair maid was she,

And the name that she went by was bonny Bessie.

Oh the first came to court her was a rich squire so grand,

He courted lovely Bessie then all the night long,

Saying, my rich gold and silver I will give to thee,

If you'll tell me that you love me my bonny Bessie.

Oh the next came to court her was a captain from-sea,

He courted lovely Bessie in then every degree,

Saying, my ship, gold and silver I will give to thee,

If you'll tell me that you love me my bonny Bessie.

The next came to court her was a merchant from sea,

He courted lovely Bessie then, every degree,

Saying, I'll buy you some fine satins right down to your toes

If you'll tell me that you'll marry me my bonny Bessie.

That's it Jim, I forget the rest of it.

J C       Now, could you tell us something about the sheets?

M Mc   Well er, around where my father came from like, he was very well known as being a singer, not a singer now for his living like, but a fireside singer, we'll call it, and what we call ceilidhing now, going to houses.    Well they were very fond of that song where he came from, he'd be like the young people today singing, buying those records, you know.   But it got that popular around that area, travelled from parish to parish then, where he got it from I do not know.

So when I used be selling the ballads then like, and my mother, they used ask me, “have you any of your father's songs”, you know, when we went in to where we were reared now, “have you the Blind Beggar, and I used say, no”.   

“Why don't you get those printed”, they'd say,  “those are the songs you'd sell, and if you get them printed I'll buy about a dozen of them off you next time I meet you”.   

So that's how I got them in print then myself.  My father writes them out for me and I'd go in to the printing office then, then I'd get them printed.

Well they were the songs that did sing, and many a time after I went into the pubs after selling ballads like and things like that and I'd hear all the lads inside on a fair day now, we’ll say markets and meetings, well when they'd have a few pints on them, 'tis then you'd hear my songs sung back again out of my ballads.  (laughter)

J C         How old would you be then Michael?

M Mc    Er, twelve, fourteen, fifteen, maybe sixteen.

J C        This was your first job then really?

M Mc   Well, you'd have jobs in between that Jim, you know, but I'd say it was my first job, because when my mother'd bring me into a fair like, she's be doing her bit of selling and she'd give me a few dozen of different ballads and chase me off into the pubs  (laughter).

J C      Was this a family trade, this was something that would be done by your family?

M Mc   Oh yeah, yeah, oh ‘twas

J C        Your mother………….

M Mc   And a good, honest living and you'd meet people you’d like, you'd meet people you'd never met before and they'd know you again when they'd meet you again like, d'you know.  And you'd enjoy it like because you'd be meeting different faces all the time.

J C        Where would you get the songs from, you said in this case you got it from your father, where would you get the other songs from?

M Mc  Well er, that Black Velvet Band now, I remember that song now sung years ago, all those songs that’s out now, I sold those songs as ballads, and the Wild Colonial Boy, all those songs that I hear singing now, I sold all them as ballads.    And you'd buy the song that time like, in the ballads, but then you'd learn the song and you'd have to find the air of it after  (laughter).

J C    Where would you hear the song first, you'd find the song from Travellers, or from Gorgies or from who?

M Mc  Oh, from Travellers mostly because the Travelling people at that time when they'd wander on they're all going to ceilidhing.    Well us in Kerry now, if we met some Galway person coming down along from Galway, we'd say, there wouldn't be a word said that night in the house, we'd be waiting for the Galway man to sing, or the Galway woman because there'd be a different song, or a different air and then, before they'd leave like, they'd write out the song and they'd have it.

J C    You'd get them to write it out?

M Mc   Get them to write it out and then you'd be singing because they'd be as anxious for our songs that we would for them like.    But we'd write them songs out then, and next thing, if people liked it, as one man said, whatever you liked yourself you'd get another man to like it.  So we'd write them out theirself then and bring them into the printing office and get them re-wrote on ballads.

J C        But you'd get the man who sang it for you in the first place to write it out?

M Mc   Yeah.

J C        Wow, how would you remember the air, would you remember the air that he sang it to or would you pick your own?

M Mc   Oh, there was no problem, you'd easy remember the air.    When you'd be selling the ballads then like, well, you'd never sing yourself, you’d always wait until someone ask you to sing.   And they'd ask you then, now could you sing it.    And I never had no problem at all picking up the air, once I hear it once or two times, no problem at all.    I'd sing away after that if I'd know the words.  'Tis, you'd kind of follow up the verses somehow, that way, like, and the air'd come into your mind like.

JC         Wow, it was a single ballad on a sheet?

M Mc   Yeah

J C        And sometimes it had the little picture on the top, the little print on the top

M Mc    That's right, yeah.    If it would be a woman's song now, there'd be a lady in the top of the ballad, 'twas a man, if it wee a man's song, well you'd kind of meet the love songs that time like, and there'd be a man and woman, maybe one at both ends, things like that, you know, different designs.    If it was a song about a baby, you'd see a baby inside in a cradle or a cot, something like that, you know, all different designs.

J C       But the picture would always tie up with the songs?

M Mc   Oh yeah, picture always tie up with the song.  But there was one thing we were short of was the names, used never be a name for the song so we'd always pick a name out of a verse then and that'd be in the headline then.

J C       Would you put the name of an air to the ballad, on the ballad sheet?

M Mc   On some of them, yeah.    That one now, Fair Men and Maiden I Pray You Draw Near, well that had the same air as I Walked Through The Fair, d'you know, As I Moved Through The Fair, that were the same air, well you'd put the name of the air then if you had it.    I have the name of the song there now and I go into some old timer and I'd be selling the ballads and he’d say, “Hey”, he'd say, “come here, that's not the name of that song, you've the wrong name on the top”, and he'd give out to me.   

And I'd say, “'tis the only name I know”, and he'd give me the right name for it and the next time I go in I'd get that name on it.   

That's what I mean about meeting people, you'd have different stories, different songs like, d'you know.

JC         Where there many ballad sellers around?

M Mc   Oh yeah, yeah, you'd have…..  we'll say we was in Kerry now, and I'd be up in maybe Galway, maybe Mayo     Well the man in Galway that'd be selling ballads I'd do a way better trade then him, cause I'd have different songs, I'd have songs from Kerry.    And the feller come down from Galway down to Kerry he'd do way better trade than me 'cause he'd have different songs again.    Well they'd all sell like, that time.

JC        He'd be a Travelling man as well?

M Mc  Oh yeah, oh yeah.

J C        Where did you sell mainly, where did you sell your songs?

M Mc    Fair days now, inside the pubs.

J C        In Kerry, or would you travel out as well?

M Mc  0h, I'd travel away too, Kerry, Clare, all over, wherever there'd be fairs, and anywhere you'd go when the fellers'd be half steamed in the pubs, 'tis then they'd start buying them.   

You'd meet a feller from Kerry now, we'll say, you'd meet him in Clare. I might be selling ballads in Kerry later on and I'd meet the same bloke down there again.    We'd our customers like, they knew us. They new fellers then that'd be interested in the ballads, interested in singing. They'd have a buddy a good singer and they'd like him to learn a song, the way he'd sing it inside in the pub, or at home like.   Yerra, some fine singers there were and all.

J C      You say your mother would sell them as well, your mother used to sell them? 

M Mc   Oh, my mother used sell them, my mother couldn't read nor write, but she knew the songs, she knew the songs off by heart.    Well she'd never hardly sell the songs that she wouldn't know, because she couldn't read, you see. But she'd sell the songs she used to know, But she knew them off by heart like.

J C    How would she get them written out, would she get somebody who could write to do it?

M Mc   Well the printing office we used to go to now, he knew us that well he'd have them all ready wrote out, so she'd want a gross of those songs, that's twelve dozen, twelve dozen of the next song, he knew her well like; “now Jane, I've The Wild Colonial Boy”, for instance or “The Blind Beggar”, we'll say, all those songs, “I've all those in print now”.   They'd all be laid out on the counter then in all different colours, there'd be kind of pink, orange colour, yellow, and white, all that, you know, and they'd be all in bundles like.  Well you'd pick and chose them, whichever one you want, threepence a dozen I think that, time, fourpence more times.

J C     How many would you sell of each song, what would be a good sale of ballads?

M Mc   Well, 'twould be a long day's selling like, and if it would be a big fair, d’you know, you'd sell... if you sold say two or three dozen of each among, you should sell at least a gross anyway, like, twelve dozen.

J C         That's in a day?

M Mc   Yeah, well maybe more, might sell more.   Often go into a pub then and you might have a three or four dozen going in and they'd be whipped because maybe one feller might take three ballad of the one song, four, maybe six, you know.    Well he'd ask how much you want and you'd say tuppence. Sure he might take four and he might hand you two bob like, or three bob, you know.   

They'd ask you to sing a song then and bejay, the kitty might go up, you might get ten bob for two or three ballads because everybody would throw in a bob or two, a couple of pence.    I wish I could, do it today; I know the money I'd be earning anyway.

J C     How would you sell them, you know, what do you, say there was a fair in, what would you do?

M Mc  You'd go into a pub, only you'd have the ballads in your hand, you'd just walk over and you’d say, “would you like to buy some songs, some ballads”.    They'd start looking at them then.    Well they'd take them all away like, they'd start reading them all then and picking them out.   

They'd ask you then, “could you sing that one for us, could we know the air of it”.    “Yeah”, I’d say; I’d sing it then.  They'd buy me a bottle of lemonade or something and I'd sit down and I’d sing it and then often had to sing it maybe two or three times.    There'd be some girl maybe or some boy interested in it.    Then they'd want to get into the air of it like.

JC         So you did in fact teach them the air.

M Mc   Yeah, you'd have to teach them the air and they'd have to go over the ballad then again and maybe I'd have to sing it again with them, you know.     But they wouldn't want your time for nothing, oh, they'd pay you very well though, whatever you'd want to eat, or something like that, inside in the pub.   

But I remember one day I was in Listowel Fair and I was selling ballads anyway.    So I goes into a pub, I was fifteen years of age then.   

Actually, I never wanted to pack it up, it was ashamed of the ladies I got, you know.   

But there was an American inside anyway, he wasn't back to Ireland I'd say for thirty years or something, he was saying.   

So I sang that song now, The Blind Beggar, and he asked me to sing it again, and every time I sang it he stuck a pound note into my top pocket. 

He said, “will you sing again?”

So I did, yeah.  The pub was full all round like, what we call a nook (te) now that time, a small bar, a private little bar off from the rest of the pub.  

“And, will you sing it again”?  

“I will, delighted” again, of course, another pound into my top pocket every time anyway.    And the crowd was around of course and they were all throwing in two bobs apiece and a shilling apiece and I'd this pocket packed with silver money as well.  

So he asked me, “will you sing it for the last time”.  

Says I, “I'll keep singing it till morning if you want”.  (laughter )  

I'd six single pound notes in it when I came outside of the pub. I think I sold the rest of the ballads for half nothing to get away to the pictures.

J C     Would you ever come across a pub that wouldn't allow you in, wouldn't allow you to sell them?

M Mc   Er, very rare that time, very odd one, very odd.  The majority of them knew me like, they knew what I wanted, d'you know.    It came kind of popular then, d'you know, fellers started singing then without the ballads, came kind of popular, but I was never shot down, no.

J C       You know the pub we talk about, The White Hart in Fulham, it's got a notice on the door, an old notice saying, “no ballad singers”, you know.

In England at one time it was illegal to sell ballads and the old ballad sellers, they used to drill, you know, the soft part of the ear, they used to drill a hole with a hot poker as a punishment for selling ballads, and if you were caught three times selling ballads, you were sentenced to death and hung.

M Mc    And is that notice…….

J C       That notice is an old notice, you know, saying, “no ballad sellers”.

M Mc  No, not that I know of, I never remember like. Well the fellers would he drinking in the pub, they'd know me like, and they'd drag me in, I don't think the bartender'd get a whole lot of law (laughter).   

I'd always meet some feller who knew me.

J C       How would you decide what went on the sheets and what didn't. ?

M Mc  'Tis like the records now, it reminds me of the same thing Jim.     You'd get a hit ballad and I often had a new ballad now that come out like, they'd know it before I started to sing it now, d'you know, they'd hear it before off somebody else, so I'd get that in print straight away Jim,   

There was,.... I'm not saying about wireless, was never in here, wireless was not that long in Ireland, but 'twould just travel through our parish or through a town, from one town to another, and fair to another and you'd get the new ballad that would come out and you'd sell twenty times as much of that ballad as you would of the rest of them, when they come out new like,   

All songs like that now, the new songs out that time.    They'd be the old ones now we call them.    They were just like a hit record of Irish singing.

J C       Was there a certain type of song that wouldn't go on the ballad sheets?

M Mc   Er, no.    That song now, 'tis out again now, Bless this house oh Lord we pray, keep it safe both night and day, well, that was a great song, that was a good seller, very good, I made money out of that song on ballads Well, we're only talking about pennies now at that time, 'tis thousands today

J C      What was the best....  what did you sell most of can you remember?

M Mc     I'd say that one now, Bless This House Oh Lord We Pray, Keep It Safe Both Night and Day, I thought that was the best seller of all times, it went that well like, it went for the round of the years, d’you know, everybody was singing it somehow.    And the Blind Beggar sold very well now, that one.    All those songs now, The Wild Colonial Boy.    Several songs like that now, Patsy Fagin, did you hear that one, you did Jim, Hullo Patsy Fagin?    That's not out very long, about twenty six, twenty seven years ago.    That now and lot more of them.

J C       What would you say was the oldest song that went on to a ballad that you know?

M Mc   Oh, the Blind Beggar, I’d say, I'd say that was the oldest because at that time..... I'd meet an old man at that time of sixty five, seventy years we'll say and he'd be contradicting me about the song.    Actually that's how I put it right because the old timers was telling me. The printer might make a mistake and put the second verse where the third one should be or something like that, you know,    But you'd meet the old timers then inside in the pub and they'd contradict me, I’d have to rewrite it out there inside in the bar again and I'd have to go on again.

J C       Where there a lot of singers about then Michael, among the Gorgies, not just the Travellers?

M Mc    Oh yeah, every pub that time.     You'd have the pub now here like in front and you'd have the dance hall down the back, and you'd have the band, just like today, just like they sing in pubs now, that's the way they were that time.     You'd have the timber floor then, down the back, bigger that an ordinary room now and you'd have the place in the corner for the feller with the concertina, the old piano accordion, whatever it would be like, mouth organ thrown in.    And you'd have the women in then, and the men in from the fair, oh, the grandest of step-dancers I ever seen in my life anyway, grandest of step-dancers. You'd see the four hand reels; you'd see the famous.....  Well, there’d be always better dancers in another parish like and all that.     Then you'd see the man standing up and he giving out the recitations.     They wouldn't be drunk now or anything like, 'twas their day out and that was that,  

They'd have dinner altogether inside in the pub, just like the singing bars now today, no difference.

They knocked them all away then, they went to build new pubs and eventually they're back now again with their dancing, singing, all back in the pub, the same way again, different way of course.    But the pubs I go into now today, back in Ireland we'll say, you can't hear half what's going on, but that time you'd be interested in every verse that would be coming up because you'd kind of know what was going to come up like.     No sooner up on the stage and they’re gone off of it again.

J C       When would you stop selling ballads, would you think how long ago it was?

M Mc   Well, I'm forty five now and I was about sixteen when I stopped selling the ballads.

J C        You haven't sold them that long?

M Mc    No, I didn't sell them now since I was about sixteen Jim.

J C         How long ago was it since anybody sold ballads; they’re not sold now, are they?

M Mc    No, no.

J C         How long ago would you say it was, would it be about the same time?

M Mc    I don't remember seeing anybody selling ballads since Jim, no.

J C        So that would be what, forty five..... it would be thirty years ago,

M Mc   Thirty years ago; well, I found a better and easier occupation I thought, you know, you'd always go on from one to another.    I'd too many pokers in the fire, whatever they call it  (laughter).

J C     Why do you think people stopped selling them?

M Mc     'Twas classed as a very low trade, d'you know, I imagine that was the people that couldn't do it, d’you know,    I enjoyed it because... well I enjoyed singing, I enjoyed whistling.    Wherever there was music I was there, whatever was wrong.   I wasn't a very good singer, I wasn't a very good musician either but I was terrible fond of it, I enjoyed it, I enjoyed my work, from pub to pub, I enjoyed meeting faces, strange people and....  I often went into a pub there, I heard lovely singers inside, lovely dancers, I'd stop there all day and I wouldn't bother selling anything.

J C      But you'd say it was something other people were ashamed of doing, when they sold the ballads?

M Mc     Well, 'tis like a man going on trying to make a record.    In the morning he couldn't do it.   

It reminds me.... well, fellers that didn't...  do it; they weren't able to do it, that's the way of saying it.    There was fellers was able to do it then, they hadn't the neck of doing it, something like that, d'you know.    

'Tis my life like, you're never .ashamed of your occupation once you know how to do it.