Tape thirty three.

Mikeen McCarthy

Contents

Biddy Early and the Priest's horse (4 whitethorn leaves)

Biddy Early and the traveller's lost horse.

Petticoat Loose and the 7-ton hand

Petticoat Loose and the traveller over the water

Petticoat Loose banished into the water

Water as a defence against evil

Haunted mollies (stopping places)

Story of dogs in the night

On fear of ghosts

“The walk of the dead” - a haunted road

The travellers grey horse warned by a dead man

“I don1t think the fright ever left him"

"I could never claim I heard a ghost, but I heard a lot of things"

The high trees moved by a "pole".

Scapulars as protection.

The snow-white pony and the drowned man, “I’ll never forget his vision”.

M Mc  There's several stories about Biddy Early.

There's one where the priest, he came up from Waterford, d'you know, well, a lot of priests would visit her and a lot of them wouldn't go near her.   D'you know, they claim she was a witch, more people claim she wasn't.   She was better than a doctor, maybe it was the doctors didn’t believe in her like. She was married; I don't know was it four or five times.

M Mc  This priest came from Waterford anyway, he said, “I'll go and see her, I'm not afraid of her”, he said.   So he came by horseback anyway and when he landed to Biddy Early she knew he was coming, she knew what brought him there.

So she said, “I know what brought you and I know what you came a long road for”.    And she said, “get out of the yard now”, she said, “and before you reach the cross”, she said, “I'll give you a sign”, she said, “and you'll come back near Biddy Early no more”.    So away he goes and just as he came to the cross the horse stood as straight as a rule, not a move. She went in doing her work, whatever it was, and there was a young lad came in.   He said, “The horse is above at the cross”, he said, and it won't move for the holy father. “Sure, I know that”, she said and she goes out to.... what they call them trees now, whitethorn trees outside in front of the house and she picked off three or four leaves, four leaves, and she gave it to the young lad.  

“Go on up now and hand him those four leaves”, she said, “a leaf for every leg, and tell him not to come near Biddy Early any more”.  

The young feller goes up and he handed the priest the four leaves.  
“She said”, he said, “there's four leaves, one for each leg, and when you drop them on the ground”, he said, and “that she don't want to see the sight of you any more”.  

Well when the horse moved I'm sure he didn't pull up for nothing until he landed down in the County Waterford, he went there like a jet plane, as fast as he could go.   He said, “I'll never again go near Biddy Early anyway”.

M Mc  But there was the one there then about the Travelling man.   He missed his horse.  So he was never out of the County Clare, this Travelling man anyway.   The horse was gone for ten or twelve days, bejay he couldn't find trace nor hide of the horse anyway.   He said, “I'll have to go to Biddy Early”, he said, “See if she know anything”.  

Went on to Biddy Early anyway and he was coming in there.  

“Well Pat”, she said, “is your horse gone”?  

“0h, he is Biddy”, he said,

“And you want me”, she said, “to tell you where he is; you’d never come near me”, she said, “till you want something”, she said, “but however, I'll tell you anyway”, she said.  “Go up now”, she said, “your horse now is in the County Limerick”.

“Oh Biddy”, he said, “I'll get lost, that's like America to me”.

“Go up to the farm”, she said, “and get a loan of he's horse”.

He went up to the farm and he brought down the horse.   

“Sure, I'm as badly off as ever”, he said, “I still won't know the way”.

She said, “just sit in the front of the car now and the horse will bring you there”.  

And the horse kept walking away, walking away till he walked into the farm yard where his horse was inside in the County Limerick, he never pulled a rope or nothing at all, just steered right into the yard and there his horse was,  

He brought back the farmers horse again and thanked Biddy very much.  

That's what she said to him as he was going away, “I won't see you again now until your horse is gone again”.  (laughter).

D T     What's the story about her weighing seven tons?

M Mc    Oh that wasn't…. that was Petticoat Loose, that's not Biddy Early.   

Petticoat Loose isn't....... only Waterford.

Petticoat Loose she hit her mother, her mother was a widow woman and she give her mother a slap one morning.   And I suppose the mother didn't mean it like, she said, “that your hand may grow seven ton”, d'you know, she cursed her like.

So begorrah, there was a man coming down with a grey horse the following morning anyway, and he started talking to Petticoat Loose’s mother and Petticoat Loose, she was only a young girl that time, she put her hand on top of the horse and the horse fell underneath the man, killed him stone dead.

So she was cursed then like.   So you'd hear several yarns about her.          

There was nobody would pass the place where she was, there was a bridge at one side of her little house and that's as far as they'd come, she’d never pass the bridge, she'd never come over the water like.  

So there was an old Travelling man anyway and 'twas about eight or nine miles of a short cut one night.   

“And begod”, he said, “'twould be a great short cut if Petticoat loose wasn't on the road”, d'you know.    So on he goes,  

“Yerra”, he said, “I'll take a chance”.  

So 'twas at the other side now that he was coming, that the bridge was and he'd four or five donkeys anyway, he was going to a fair in Tallagh.    Well, whatever he called her, Petticoat Loose, well I didn't know her other name anyway.  

“How are you”?   

“Oh jay, I'm fine”, she said, “John, how are you”.  

“Fine”.   

“Will you come in and have a cup of tea”?   

“By jay”, he said, “I was just going to ask you for it”, he said, “I'm after coming an awful long road. Wait till I put those old donkeys across the bridge”, he said.

“Oh, all right”, she said, “I have the grand fresh goat's milk inside”.  

“Oh, that's lovely”, he said, “wasn't I lucky you were up”, he said, “I'd no chance of getting a cup of tea off of nobody else; they'd all be in bed”.   

So begod, he said nothing until he got the donkeys across the bridge anyway.

“Yerra, I won't bother with that tea now”, you know.  

He knew she wouldn't come across the bridge.  

“Ah”, she said, “now I ought to know that”, she said, “you'd have never walked out of here with your life”.  

“Ah, but I knew that”, he said.  

“Well you'll be passing back here”, she said to him.  

“No”, he said, “I'll never pass back now”, he said.  

That's how he got away from her.   

But they banished her into a lake there's there anyway, and the priest...,. 

There's a kind of a rhyme about it but I do not know it.  

And he banished her in, he couldn't banish her for the rest of the life like, he couldn't murder her, I mean, he didn't know what to do with her.  

He said, “I'll tie you in chains on top of the mountain”, the priest said.  

“If you do”, she said, “I'll put the red ashes off the top of the mountain down on top of ye”, she said, she was going to burn the mountain.  

“Well”, he said, “I'll put you where you have no red ashes; I'm going to put you underneath the lake”.   That's Petticoat Loose's lake now.  

“And I'll chain you in there”, he said, “until the lake'll flow over”.

So he chained her in the bottom of the lake anyway, until such time as the lake will flow over.   Well 'tisnt a very wide lake at all now, but champion stone throwers came from all over Ireland and tried to put a stone across it and couldn't, can't be done.   'Twould go right in to the middle of it.   So there's that many stones going into it now that 'tis the brinks of coming out over it now, d'you know, the water is starting to flow out now.   I'd say another twenty, maybe fifty years, I don't know.  

But that's what you hear people talking about, 'tis coming very close to the top now. If she ever come up she'd do terrible harm (laughter).

J C       What's this thing about water Michael, why couldn't she cross the bridge?

M Mc  Well, they claim that any evil person, that, that's the only weapon you have agin 'em is that they can't cross the water.  

I heard of families haunted, I heard of men and women haunted, whatever they do to people like, maybe they'd owe them heavy debt,  thing like that, and them people'd die. Maybe harm in a different way.   Them people'd die and they'd haunt them,   Well no matter what part of Ireland them people'd go, them ghosts would be after them, so they have to emigrate, come across to England, come across to America.   They'd hear no more of them that was the only weapon they had agin 'em.

Oh, that was very numerous in Ireland, haunted, a lot of haunted houses, haunted people.   There was families shifted from one farm to another, they call them family ghosts now. But 'twasn't family ghosts that time  (laughter), oh faith, it wasn't.

J C     Hang on.

M Mc  What we call caravan sites now, that's what they call for the travellers like, but what we used call.... we'd several names  for places to stop, we'd call them a mollie and a camping ground and more of them'd call it a pull in, d'you know,   But a mollie we calls a place to stop. If you were a stranger now, we'll say Jim or Denis there, and looking for a place to stop in our country, I'd tell you, I'd say, “I know where there’s a good mollie now and I'll send you to it.   Tell him then, go on such a place, such a crossroads and pull in there, you're all right there, I know there’s no harm will come of you there, there's a place for your old horse and all that.   

But there was those mollies anyway, there was a lot of those mollies that you couldn't stop in, haunted.   There1s one particular..... I could tell you twenty yarns like.   There's one particular place outside of Mallow now, 'twas a great place for horses, big wide road there for grazing horses, plenty firewood, lovely spring water, but you couldn't just stop in it.   The minute it become twelve o’clock at night you could have ten caravans there, or have fifteen, 'tis all the same, yeah.   You'd always say with the amount of caravans, 'twould annoy them that they wouldn't bother, d'you know.   But it didn't matter1 somebody out of that lot of caravans that night some one person; he'd be up all night and.... I heard it myself. And 'twould just go like this like ohoo- ohooo, ohooo, ohooo, like that all night long and you could find the doors of your caravan open like and what they call the shafts of the caravan, they'd be lifting.   And jakers, the sweat would be.... we left it, at four o’clock in the morning one time, two of us, myself and the brother in law of mine.  

I'd two dogs, I had a big Alsatian and I'd another mastiff dog, a distaff, and I got up in the morning and my staff was lying inside in the drain, he couldn't get up, exhausted.   I heard them two dogs at him all night, he could have been a lion or a tiger and them two dogs would have put him going, a bull or anything.    Where is saw them two dogs, I never saw my alsatian no more and I pulled my staff dog out of the drain exhausted.    And that dog was never any more good, he got stupid, foolish.    But we packed at four o’clock in the morning and we pulled out two caravans ourself and pulled to the pass of crossroads that was there.    Quite safe then.

But there was a man there and we were telling him the following morning about it.    Nobody ever stops there now because people.... we didn't believe other people, people didn't believe us, but it happened to other people again.  

But there was a Mr Foot anyway, he was a Protestant man himself and he lives there, 'tis the beet factory they call it and 'tis he owned the farm, very nice man, his wife and his sons were the same way.   So Mr Foot always walks hundreds and hundreds of acres of land, well he always walks to church now and walks to shop, any place like that, always walking, always pull up, talking to you now, playing with the kids, very nice man.   

We were telling him anyway.  

“Why did you shift”, he said. 

I told him, “Mr Foot, we had an awful fright last night, we were up all night”.  

He said, “You should never stop there, I told a lot of the travellers not to stop there”, he said, “the world of them”, he said, “and any feller I sees pulling in there on his own”, he said, “I tell them leave”.   “He imagine it is me want 'em going, I don't”, he said,

“I wouldn't walk this road”, he said, “and that's my farm of that size and I wouldn't walk in the night”.    “There's a graveyard just above us here”, he said, that's what this man told me now, and he's a Protestant himself.   

He said, “There’s Catholics and Protestants buried there together”, he said, “in the one graveyard like”.  

And that's his opinion about it, but the graveyard..... I’m sure if 'twas me wanted to stop there I'd stop agin the graveyard gate than where I stopped that time, I'm sure I'd be safe there anyway.    But I wouldn't know what this thing was up to, there was more than me had to get out of it.   No Travelling people stops there now.

J C    Did you ever hear of ghosts harming people, not just frightening them but harming them?

M Mc   No, no, no, I never heard tell of a ghost harming anybody.   No, I make out... I wouldn't be afraid of ghosts, I'm not one bit afraid of ghosts, and if you were sure it was a ghost.   But d'you see, you can't wait to think like, in the middle of night, what is it, is it a ghost, you don't know what it is, like.   There's things getting seen that was never seen before, all that, you know.   But I was never afraid, I went roads all hours of night, twelve, one o’clock, two o’clock, three o'clock, any hours winter or summer, I just went where I wanted to go and that was that.  

But there was another road outside of Killarney we used camp there again, Bohereen Na Mora, that 'tis in Irish and the Walk of the Dead, that what 'tis in English.   But this is a long, woody road. There was a friend of mine, it was just Christmas Eve night for all the world and he got very bad, he'd ulcers and the lad got very bad altogether inside, and nobody, they must be twelve, fifteen caravans there but nobody'd go in for a doctor because everybody was afraid to go in.   Three fellers came up to the door of the caravan to me; I was only a young lad.  

“Will you come in”,  and we'd a tilley lamp at that time like, at the side of the road, my mother had, and bejay with the tilley lamp lighting outside the door they were still half breezy at the front of the wagon like, standing there, alone, 'twas very dark like.   That man's brother came up and he was sick too and 'twas twelve o’clock at night like.

I was very fit that time.  

I put on my shoes.

“Put on your boots”, says my father to me, God have mercy on him.

“I won’t”, says I, “I'll put on my shoes”; they didn't know what I was up to.  

I put on my light shoes on me.  

He says, “You’ll die with the cold in them things”. 

“I won't”, says I to him.  I thrown off my coat and I put on a woollen jumper on me.

“Stop ye there”, says I, “I'll get the doctor”.  

And I took fair cutting in the middle of the road, running, ‘twas three mile but running at that time was nothing to me.   I never came off the middle of the road till I came in to the doctor, Doctor Savage. 

I told him, says I, “Michael O'Brien is very sick”.  

And do you know what he told me, go on away in front of me, he thought I'd some way... he didn't know I was walking.

“Alright doctor”, says I to him, I was that well mannered that time that I couldn't tell him and I took pelting that road in front again, and I flying away and I wouldn't even look at both sides of me and I landed home.   And when I landed home, what was outside on the road was more worried about me than they were about the sick man.  

But thank God, I never seen nothing or heard nothing.   

But that's what my Grandmother say, “if you have a place to go, if a person is sick don't never be afraid of the dead because they'll only help you out”.  

But I never seem to be afraid of them anyway. But going a place that you needn't go it can be a very bad thing like, that you've no business going there like, thing like that, that's what they claim.

M Mc  There  was a Travelling man one time.

Travelling people one time, they used have wicked fights, d'you know, they used be cross with one another like, years gone by in the lack of education and the lack of travelling I'd say.   Travelling is an education on its own.   They used keep around the one area much.   So he'd a grey horse anyway, 'tis my grandmother I heard going on.   He was coming on with the grey horse and he was up on top of the grey horses back, they claim that a grey horse was very lucky and once you have a hazel stick in your hand.  

Those things I hardly ever believed in now, I always kept a hazel stick when I be going to fair or anything like that, in the night, you1d have that belief in it like.  

But he was coming, he'd an awful fight anyway, more Travelling people and he was on the run.   As we say 'tis like mobs of youths today now.   If you'd a fight with lads in London you'd he glad to get out of it 'cause there's a mob there want to watch you.   So he was supposed to be a great fighting man anyway.   He was coming on with the grey horse anyway and 'twas between two towns and a man walks up alongside him as fast as the horse was walking.

“They're behind you and they're before you grey horse”, says he, “they're behind you and they're before you grey horse”, and the man just vanished away like that.  

That meant his enemies were in front of him and they were behind him.  

He cut off for the mountain anyway, got away from the whole lot.   But if he had to go another mile or a half a mile he was in to one crowd that was watching him and the other crowd was driving him on and he didn't know.   But that dead man warned him, he told him, probably saved his life.   

But there was such things, they still exist, I suppose, I don't know, they've all those motor cars and all now.    But they're back in Ireland, there's new houses back in Ireland, brand new houses, two storey high houses, nobody ever lived in them, haunted.  

Rather it is the people that had built them, whether it'd be the ground, those squatters’ rights and all this.   But I know several houses back in Ireland, people can't live in 'em.   You'd imagine you have thunder all night and all this.   A lot of them back around Kerry, oh yes faith.  

There's the man with no head, he was supposed to be seen in a place called The Old Road in the place where we lived in Cahersiveen.   They claim, on the hour of twelve

o’clock at night,   Well I never saw him because I never went there at twelve o’clock at night and anybody asked in Cahersiveen, they'd tell you the same (laughter).

There were the two nuns; they were down by the back of the convent.  

There was a feller then, Jackie James, God have mercy on his soul, terrible fond man of drink, jay, he'd do anything for a pint, and a right hard man at the back of it.

Jackie’d climb up the side of a house if you ever said, “I'll give you a pint Jackie”.   

There was this man anyway, for the crack he said, Jackie, “if you go down the Nuns’ Lane, says he, that's what they used call it, it was haunted with two nuns.

“If you go down the Nun's Lane”, says he, “I'll tell you I'll pay for three pints for you”, he said, “don't mind one”; pints that time were about sixpence I suppose, whatever it was.   

“Jay”, he said, “do you know what, I'd go into the convent now, this minute, and I'd chase all the nuns inside out of it”, he said, “for three pints”.  

“Just go down the lane, never mind going into the convent”.   

“I will then”, he said.

So the pub door was right over the lane anyway, and Jackie on with him with his cap in his hand, down the lane.  

He said, “I'll come up around the other way”.   

And he went down the lane and he just went half ways down it and he came back up and he was as white as a sheet,  

He said, “if you give me all the pints inside in that pub”, he said, “this moment, I wouldn't drink them”, said he, and he never told nobody, never mentioned, and nobody ever said that he ever saw anything or he never mentioned it.   I don't think the fright ever left him, d'you know.   He wouldn't drink the pints when he came up, the same man'd drink it out of a dusty wellington, as the man said.

“No”, he said, “if you give me all the drink in the pub”, he said, “for nothing, I wouldn't drink it”, says he, and he was white as a sheet and he shivering.   

He’s dead since, the same man, God have mercy on him.    Whether he saw anything or... 'tis there to be told.

D T      Did you ever hear any stories about ghosts since the travellers have moved into lorries and trailers and that?

M Mc  No, not much now Denis, but the time when you would hear the ghosts... I did..., I could never claim I heard a ghost, I could never claim I heard a ghost because I never really..... they say, always mind your own business, things like that, I always did.    If I heard something I'd never mention about it, I'd never mention it to nobody the following morning, but I did hear a lot of things, definite.   But where you would hear them, when you've a tent on the ground or an old horse drawn caravan when you're travelling on your own.   Or I'll tell you something else, when you'd be doing a long road in the middle of the night with nothing but the hooves of the horses and nobody to say hello to, you only hear the wind whistling and maybe the thunder, maybe lightning.   I'm telling you you'd be more afraid then that you would be afraid of ten men maybe, you know, because if ten men attacked you, you could talk to them, when you'd hear funny noises you'd have no-one to talk to.

Well, there was very high trees anyway, I mean those trees would be twenty feet high, but very light and 'twas the most loveliest night I ever remember anyway, 'twas like the middle of the day, moonlight night.   It's kind of a night now that you'd travel anywhere, wouldn't worry, or you'd walk it. In fact I'd sooner walk on the same night now than be inside in a comfortable bed.  

And I was going along and all of a shot I heard the trees now, the same as you get a pole and run it along the trees like that, but you'd want to be twenty feet high before you could do it.  And running along the tops of all the trees for as good as a hundred yards in front of me at one side,  

So I mean as I say I'd never claim I heard a ghost but... I'd a set of scafflers on my neck anyway, did you ever see scafflers?   They were thing that the grandmother before me wore and my mother wore them, they were brown and there'd be reliques inside in the scafflers like, there'd be one in the back and one in the front and you'd have a..... did you ever see them?    And I'd them on me, and I often claimed after, I caught them in my hand and I often claimed to myself, says I, if it had to go a couple of feet lower, what was going to happen, d'you know.   But I did get a bad fright that night, definite.  

If you could see something that was any reason for it, I mean if there was a storm now or something or rain, something.   But I mean, there was no reason for it except you get up in a helicopter now and get a high pole, get a long pole and run all along the tops of the trees like, for a hundred yards in front of you. I mean there was no bird strong enough like, still I claim I never heard nothing, can't ever prove it was a ghost.

M Mc  We were one night, 'twas the darkest night I ever see, I ever remember,   So my father and my mother, God have mercy on my father now, we pulled in the side of a road, 'twas that dark we couldn't move any further, d'you know,   Well the traffic was very thin that time, no traffic much, but still 'twas more danger that time than 'tis now with the traffic because you'd meet the one motor car that time and he'd do more harm than fifty do now.   

We pulled in the side of a main road anyway, another man and woman there too, dead since, God have mercy on them, and this feller, he lives back in Ireland now, he was a buddy of mine that time.     I'd a snow white pony and we'd a lot more horses, but this snow white pony, 'twas our guide for finding the horses in a dark night, I always kept her because you'd see her when you wouldn't see the black one or the brown one in the middle of the night, d'you know, you wouldn't.   

Well I go up for them into the farm field like, and I'd be out in the morning before the farmer'd be up and I wanted to see something that I could catch.   So I left them back the road anyway, until such time as we call sarking time (te),  that's the time of putting them in to the field unknownst to the farmer.

And says I, calling him over, John, says I, “coming on sarking”, d'you know, that meant putting them into the farmers field like, without the farmer knowing, and having them out in the morning before the farmer were up.  

“I am”, he said, and he drank his cup of tea and off we went.   

Bejay, 'twas that dark anyway, like if you walk that side and I walk this side I imagine you couldn't see your hand like that, put up your hand you couldn't see nothing.    And we were going along the side of the road and we we're cracking matches and we couldn't hear a sound of a horse, nothing, passed them out.

A man came along with a bicycle,” see, your horses are behind you, you passed them out”.  

What really happened was the white one and a couple more was up in a little lane, a side lane,    all they were after trying the side lane.  

We turned back anyway and when we turned back they were behind on the road.    And bejay, we were coming back along now, say I, we'll pass 'em out again if we don't watch it. 

We passed them out anyway, I was walking along the side of the main road now, between the grass verge and the road, and I looked inside in the drain and I saw a man and he fully clothed, dressed, cap, ‘tis, I'll never forget his vision, 'tis in my mind today and that's twenty six, twenty eight years ago, and I could tell you the descriptions of that man.    He'd a cap on him, dressed in American style, he'd a sports coat and he'd a white shirt and tie.    Fully dressed, and he lying down inside in the drain.  

As dark as it was, my mate, he saw the fright of me and he started backing away from me.    So I was afraid in case he run.

“Says I”, what's wrong with you.    He was running away from me; “what's wrong with you”.  

So there must be something wrong with me like, you see, that I didn't know.  

“Nothing”, says I to him, “what's wrong with you”?   

“What's wrong with you”, says he, and he shoving me away from him like.   

So, “nothing”, says I to him, I couldn't tell him nothing because he was cowardly, the same feller, he would run.   

I landed home anyway and I jumped up on what we call the foot board of the caravan now, old horse drawn wagon that time and when I looked in, the old woman, she's dead since, God have mercy on her, she was Mollie Coffey.  

“Oh”, she said, “look at the colour of you, you're as white as a sheet”, says she, you see, and I was shivering.

She said, “what happened you”.   

“There's a man”, said I, “down there in the drain”, say I, “and he's thrown down in the drain”.  “But”, say I, “what's killing me, when we couldn't see the horses”, say I, “and I saw the man”, see, I couldn't see the horses and I saw the man fully clothed.  

So my mother gave me a cup of tea, a cup of warm tea and all that, my father, God have mercy on him, didn't believe in anything like that, he has two wars and everything like.     “Ah, shurrup out of that”, he said to me, “go on and you talk like old childs play”, and all that, you know.   He'd draw the back of the cap and he'd give it to you for saying anything like that, d'you know.   

My mother gets up the following morning, she always had to prove out things like that, and begod, she went down to the cottages, and down to the cottage where I saw the man.    She said, “my son got an awful fright here last night”, she said, the woman knew her very well. 

“What happened him Janie”, she said?  

So she told her anyway, what I'm after telling you now, that I saw a man and him fully clothed.   

“Oh God help him”, she said, “I hope the poor man didn't die in his sins”, she said. “That's a man”, she said, “was killed last year off a side-car, a horse and side-car.   They were taking around the corner and he was killed”, she said; “I hope the poor man didn't die in his sins”, said she.   

But whether 'twas that man I saw now, or not, I dunno, but I did definitely see it anyway, yeah.